Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 The purpose of a digital roadmap session is to get clear about what it is. We are building with the client, why we are building it and what success looks like. So why are we doing this? What are we doing? And what does success look like? That's the purpose of a digital roadmap session. I always pitch this by saying, look at the end of the digital roadmap session, you are going to have a digital roadmap workbook filled in with all of your answers. It's basically a strategy document. You can then take. If we decide that we don't wanna work together, which is probably gonna happen, I'm probably gonna decide I don't wanna work with you because I don't like doing implementation very much. Cuz it's a pain in the ass. Then you can take this strategy book and go give it to someone else. Another agency I can refer you on and say, here, we've done all the hard work. The agency now knows exactly what they need to build, right? This is the hard work in any project is figuring out the why, what, who, where how right. So that's what we do in the, in the roadmap session.
Speaker 1 00:01:00 If you have a vision for the agency you want to build, then we want to help you build it. Welcome to the agency. Our podcast brought to you by agency Mavericks.
Speaker 0 00:01:09 Yay folks. Troy Dean here. Welcome. Welcome to another live stream here in the digital Mavericks Facebook group, this of course is the agency hour podcast that we live stream here, coming up on today's show. We're gonna talk about paid discovery, how to get paid to pitch. In other words, how to get paid, to think and how to get paid to pitch. We're also gonna talk about why I sound like a drag queen and it might not be what you expect. And uh, we're also gonna talk about my jacket, my love little jacket here that I've got. So by the way, if you listen to this podcast and you're not in the digital Mavericks Facebook group, you won't know what I'm talking about because you're not looking at the video. So you should definitely come and join the digital Mavericks Facebook group and check out my lovely jacket with our logo on the front. We're gonna talk about that. I dunno why we're gonna talk about that, but we're gonna talk about that and to help me do all of this is my good friend. My co-host coach at agency Mavericks and my brother from another mother. Please welcome Pete crispy butter Perry.
Speaker 0 00:02:21 Hey, Jim
Speaker 3 00:02:22 Never gets old. That little, that little intro thing never gets old.
Speaker 0 00:02:25 Never. That's great. How
Speaker 3 00:02:27 You feeling man? I'm feeling well. How are you feeling? You sound like a drag queen.
Speaker 0 00:02:31 I do. And well, I could lie and say that I've been up all night, drinking whiskey, listening to, uh, jazz. Or I could tell you the truth, which is I don't have COVID Oscar does Oscar has COVID I think I just, yeah, he's he's okay. He's doing pretty well actually. Uh, we've avoided it for two years, you know? And I, when he got his positive test, I had that Mo I felt bad. I'm like, and I, I said, sorry to him. I said, dude, I'm so sorry. I couldn't protect you from COVID. And uh, because you know, it's interesting. We've been, he's four, he's almost five, but we've been talking to him for the last two years about why we can't go to the playground, not, not for the last two years, but during the last two years, there have been plenty of times where we can't go to the playground. We can't go swimming at the local swimming pool. We can't go hang out with the friends. You can't go to kindie. We can't go to the birthday parties. This has been canceled. That's been canceled because of COVID. So he knows that COVID is not a good thing. Right. And then he gets it.
Speaker 3 00:03:26 It's his norm. It's actually his norm.
Speaker 0 00:03:28 That's right. And then he's the first one in the family to get it. So I felt bad. I'm like, listen, man, I just don't want you to feel bad that you've got it. There's nothing wrong with getting COVID. It doesn't, you know, mean anything. It's just like a cold, you know, but I've felt bad because I couldn't protect him from it because you know the kind half the kind's got it right now. And you know that variances just going crazy and half the people I know actually have it, but what's interesting is no one else in the family's got it. No one else in the household here has got it. We're doing tests. I've just got a good old fashioned change of season, man, flu in Melbourne. I I've just got a really bad cold really. Um, I don't have COVID. Um, and we were supposed to be flying to the sunshine coast for a holiday this Saturday.
Speaker 0 00:04:12 Well, that's had to be pushed back a few days because we're not allowed to leave the house. So in Australia, if someone you live with gets COVID no one's allowed to leave the house for seven days. In fact, technically Oscar is supposed to be in his bedroom for seven days, right? Not he's not supposed to come out unless he needs to go to the bathroom. Well, try keeping a four and a half year old in their bedroom, right. For half an hour, let alone seven days. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we're just trying to keep our distance from him and we're not wrestling or cuddling or anything, but, um, and then so hopefully we'll come outta this on Sunday and then we can fly to the sunshine coast on Tuesday and resume our holiday a few days late. So there you go. That's why I sound like a drag queen and is every chance I could lose my voice during this episode, which could be interesting.
Speaker 3 00:04:56 That's why I'm here.
Speaker 0 00:04:58 That's why you were here.
Speaker 3 00:04:59 I wish I gone. I would've wore my jacket. I should, we should look like, uh,
Speaker 0 00:05:03 You've got, you've got one of these.
Speaker 3 00:05:04 Yeah, it would look like Maverick and goose
Speaker 0 00:05:07 Maverick. Well, Hey, who's Maverick and who's goose. Come on now. I mean,
Speaker 3 00:05:10 You're Maverick.
Speaker 0 00:05:11 It depends on the day of the week. I'm
Speaker 3 00:05:13 Clearly goose.
Speaker 0 00:05:13 It depends on the day of the week. Doesn't it? Hey, um, couple of, couple of things. Oh, so the jacket, by the way is, uh, the reason we have these jackets, uh, here's the jacket here. It's got the agency Mavericks plane on the front, right? This is a, uh, what do they call these it's weatherproof, but what do they call it? That's like a bomber. Certain, yeah, like a bomber jacket. But the actual materials, a certain type of material that, uh, is, is waterproof. The reason we have these jackets is because in September last year we ran a competition internally. And there's something in this for any of you listening who have a team, we ran a competition last year to book a certain number of calls with our clients. Uh, we call them clarity calls and a clarity call is just a 15 minute call where we sit down with a client and figure out if we're a good fit to actually help them with any of our, in any of our coaching programs.
Speaker 0 00:06:07 So we are kind of interviewing them. They're interviewing us. We kind of get a feel for each other. And if we do feel like we're a good fit, then we put them through to a, a longer discovery call. And we ran a competition to book a certain number of calls in September last year. I think it was 80 calls for the months. And I think we needed to book 20 a week. So it was like, you can't, we can't just do 60 in the last week, we needed to do an average of 20 a week and get to 80 for the month. And we did it. We got, there was a bro, there were prizes for bronze, silver and gold. The prizes were, if we got to bronze, I can't remember what the numbers were, but if we got a bronze medal, everyone got, uh, a pair of a boots, which are I'm wearing right now.
Speaker 0 00:06:49 They are the standard issue. Work from home safety boot work from home safety boot. I call them there, you know, wool, sheep, wool skin, um, sheep, woo, uh, sheep, skin, wool boot. Now of course the Filipinos didn't take the U boots cuz they have no need for them because it never really gets cold enough over there. So they got a voucher to spend. If we got a gold medal, everyone got the U boots and a pair of Ray bands of course, to look like Maverick. And if we got plat a gold medal, sorry that was silver. If we got a gold medal, everyone got the Oak boots, the uh, Ray bands and swag. And that's why we got the jackets. So we smashed it. We smashed our goal, which was fantastic. We gamified it. And it's what, what I learned through that process is when you gamify it and get the whole team on board, playing a game and competing with each other or competing as a team that you find really creative ways to achieve what it is you said you were gonna achieve.
Speaker 0 00:07:51 So we found opportunities everywhere in this business to reach out to clients and book in a call that we otherwise wouldn't have found if we weren't playing that game and we weren't incentivized to achieve the numbers and get the prizes. There you go. Emily's wearing her rugby boots right now in New Zealand. Uh, so that's uh, why we have the jackets. Now, the other thing that I wanted to talk about was the ridiculous ring, the bell channel, oh boy. In our <laugh> in our Maverick's slack. Again, I'm not going to, uh, out one. Um, but we have wins and success everywhere. One of our Mavericks just had their biggest month ever, uh, eight K over, over budget, eight grand, more than they expected, increased monthly recurring by seven and a half. Just, just let that sit in for a second increased monthly recurring revenue by an additional seven and a half thousand dollars per month.
Speaker 0 00:08:50 That's over 85 grand a year in new recurring revenue. And uh, just dropped a statement of work for a $35,000 project and a $65,000 project. This particular Maverick says, I need to sell minus $1,200 next month to break even so April they're already ahead by $1,200 because of what they sold in March. Yeah, absolutely. On fire. Um, so just wanted to share that with you guys. Uh, alright. So today we are gonna dive into do a bit of a deep dive into paid discovery and how to sell paid discovery. What is, let's just, let's just recap some definitions here. What the hell is discovery Pete, as the way, the way that you understand it, what is the point of discovery? How does it work? And, and, and what do you do
Speaker 3 00:09:43 Discovery? There's a lot of questions. Which one do you want me to answer?
Speaker 0 00:09:47 <laugh> well, you know, pick a number, Hey, you want, I'm not, I'm not fus.
Speaker 3 00:09:52 So discovery is basically some people call it a road mapping session. Some people call it a strategy session. It's basically assuming, assuming you're doing a project, say a website, um, it's basically the session that you do beforehand to get to the bottom of what this project is really all about. So if, whether it's for branding or website or SEO or whatever, obviously you have to have some sort of meeting ahead of time to, um, you know, know what the project is, discovery the way we do it is a little bit, um, deeper than that, you know, we, I don't wanna give away your thunder here, but we gotta dive into all kinds of things in their business that are seem like at the first glance to the client anyway, that maybe they have nothing to do with building a website. Um, and that's cuz we don't just build websites. We'res are a commodity. So we have to dive a little bit deeper and uh, you know, ask, ask more questions, go wide, go deep. It's the evolution of what, what we used to do is go wide, go deep. Mm. Um, so yeah, all that stuff.
Speaker 0 00:11:01 And, and so what's the problem with, you know, the, I, we, we had, we had someone join Mavericks last year and on the first call that I connected with him, he said, I'm, I've been through a, he'd been through a coaching program for web designers. Right. I dunno which one it was. I, I, I didn't want to know. Um, and he said, I've been taught to do about four or five free discovery sessions before I pitch my proposal.
Speaker 3 00:11:38 That's crazy.
Speaker 0 00:11:39 Right.
Speaker 3 00:11:40 That's crazy. I'm like, I don't free is a four letter word that's you don't, you don't use that word. Nobody uses that word.
Speaker 0 00:11:46 No, no. And so I'm like, dude, how's that working out for you? And he's like, well, you know, it's taking a lot of time and a lot of effort and you know, um, the problem with free, the problem with discovery is one for you as an agency owner, there's no people don't ex people don't wanna pay for it. Right. So there's no money in it. And what happens is you typically get on the phone or you meet up with someone. We had another Maverick recently who was dealing with a client and they said, uh, they had a quick phone call and they said, look, this sounds great. You sound like, you really know what you're doing. We'd love you to drive out and meet the team. Right. And, um, before we sign off so that we can really, you know, connect, it was gonna be a three and a half hour round trip, right in, so like an hour and three quarters each way in travel, plus the time you're gonna spend there, I coached her and said, don't like, charge them for that.
Speaker 0 00:12:44 If you're gonna say, yeah, look happy to come out. Once you hire me happy to come out and we'll meet the team and we'll do a, a digital road mapping session and we'll put everything on the team. I'm not, I'm busy. I don't have time. Your GP doesn't drive out to your house and diagnose the rash that you've got on your inner thigh for free. Right. You pay a locum. If you want the doctor to come to your house, you paying more than if you go and see them. Right. So people's expectations. First of all, are that they don't wanna pay for discovery. And we're gonna talk about why we don't call it discovery for that reason. We'll talk about that in, in a little minute. But the other problem is when someone wants to pick your brain or you do free discovery for them, there's no skin in the game for them, right?
Speaker 0 00:13:30 Yeah. So what typically happens is they don't value what it is. We've talked about. They don't value your advice. They don't believe it. They don't, they're not gonna put it into action. And then they might learn some stuff and they go and they go, well, that was kind of helpful. But you know, I don't know, send me a proposal. You send a proposal and they get sticker shock. And they're like, what? You're gonna charge me $12,000 for a website. That's fucking ridiculous. I can get it on fiber or Upwork for 599 bucks. And in the meantime, you've wasted your time. They don't value the conversation and you know, everybody loses, they don't get the outcome, you don't get paid. So that's the problem that we wanna fix using paid discovery. And we, I also wanna walk you through how this fits into your sales process, right? Because paid discovery in, in our world is a product that you can sell someone before they're ready to make a bigger commitment. Right? So think about dating. This is coffee, before we go out for dinner. Right. Makes sense. Excuse me. Now I'm also gonna share my screen at some point, because I'm gonna show you some of the assets that we've built and no, you can't have them. These are assets that we've built that we give our paying clients. So some of you are,
Speaker 3 00:14:43 Some of you can, if you, if you're a Maverick, if you're a Maverick, you
Speaker 0 00:14:46 Can <laugh>. If you're a Maverick, you can have them. Um, we may at some point package this up and sell it as a separate product. If there's a desire for it. If you guys tell us that you would like this as a separate product and a separate training, then we may package it up and, uh, make it available. But I wanna just give you an idea of the concept, right? And some of the things that you need to run successful, paid discovery, because the biggest pushback that we get from clients that we work with, and we start to have this conversation with is they say, well, no, one's gonna pay for discovery. Right? And so the, uh, the idea is, uh, if people don't wanna pay for discovery, there's two things you need to do. One stop calling it discovery and two, make it so valuable that people will pay for it.
Speaker 0 00:15:33 So that's why we don't call it discovery. That's why I call it a digital roadmap session. You can call it whatever you want. You can call it strategy, workshop. Again, people don't really wanna pay for a strategy workshop. Um, you call it whatever you want, but make it valuable enough that that it's a no brainer for the client to pay for it. Now that what I will say is this. We have Mavericks who are selling paid discovery from the, and I'll show you our sales process in a moment in a fancy flow chart. So again, if you're listening to this as a podcast, please come and join the digital Mavericks Facebook group, right? Because you, then you'll be able to see what we are. We're sharing here on the video. I'm gonna show you where this fits into your sales process. We have Mavericks who sell paid discovery from the first phone call in their sales process.
Speaker 0 00:16:18 They sell paid discovery, and then they have about an 85% close rate from paid discovery to larger project. Yeah. Right? So, so it's also a way of shortening your sales cycle and actually getting a commercial relationship going with the client quicker, because you're not asking for $15,000 for a website, you might be asking for two and a half thousand dollars for a digital roadmap, and I'll walk you through what the deliverable is and how to make that valuable. Once they've invested two and a half grand for a digital roadmap, it's then it's not as big a stretch for them to make a serious investment in building out the project. And you are clearly the right person to do it because once you've done a digital roadmap session, you know, more about their business than anyone including them, because you've helped them think through this and you've helped them answer questions and you've helped them have realizations. Right?
Speaker 0 00:17:05 Interesting comment here from James Mero, the truth is most are already paying for discovery. It's just part of a larger offering. That's right. What typically what happens is people hire you to do a project. And the first thing you do is you do discovery right, as part of that larger project. So, so there's that, that model or the model where you basically do free discovery and then pitch a proposal and try and get the larger project, which is where a lot of people sit as well. What we are, what we are suggesting here is that you take discovery like a slice of cake. You take discovery, you slice it out of the bigger project and you sell it as a separate product, right? That's the concept that we're talking about here. It's gonna help your sales process. It's gonna build trust with your clients quicker. You can also codify this and delegate it to a team member in the future, which is what Adam Silverman has done in. Maverick's his team now run paid discovery. Right. He doesn't do it, his team do it. Yeah. Right. So shall we, shall we have a look at, uh, yeah.
Speaker 3 00:18:06 What are you gonna show them?
Speaker 0 00:18:07 Well, I think I'm gonna show the, yeah, I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna show the sales process first so that we can see where this fits in, in the actual sales, um, the overarching sales process. Right? So what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna share my screen and I'm just gonna walk you through the high level of our, here we go, share screen. And where is it? Window. There we go. Here it is. All right, ladies and gentlemen, here it is on the screen. If you are listening to this as a podcast, this is gonna be very entertaining radio for you right now, because you won't be able to see what we are looking at. So come and join the digital Mavericks Facebook group and come and hang out with us. What you're looking at here is a very simple flow chart, which is the Maverick sales system. This is the sales process that we teach everyone in sales, accelerator and Mavericks club.
Speaker 0 00:19:04 And I'll walk you through very high level, right? What happens is someone puts their hand up and expresses interest in what it is you are doing. And there are a multi, there, there are a multitude of way, a myriad of, of, of channels that people can do that through. They can leave a comment in a Facebook group that you, uh, on one of your responses, they can reach out to you in messenger. They can pick up the phone and call you. They can email you from your contact form on your website. They can see you at a networking event. Anyone who expresses interest in what it is that you do. Okay. The very first thing we do is we pre-qualify them. We have a series of questions that we ask very quickly just to make sure they're not a lunatic and make sure that, you know, we think that there might be a good fit for us to work together.
Speaker 0 00:19:47 For example, someone says to me, oh, I work for sports bed 365. We're a big gambling company. I would say, that's great. I'm not the Dr. You're looking for, I'm sorry, I can't help you. I don't work with anyone in the gambling industry. Um, if someone says, Hey, I'm a nonprofit. And I work in the mental health space. I'm like, oh, I'm all ears. Let's talk. We might be a good fit. So just very quick pre-qualification process. Then the first real touch point that we have with someone is what we call a triage call. It's a quick 15 minute call. You can really get these down to, you know, seven or 10 minutes. Yeah. Just
Speaker 3 00:20:19 To, I can do it nine minutes. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:20:22 Just to find out if, if you, we can actually help them. Right. So we ask a few more questions. We try and qualify their budget a little bit, make sure that they are the main decision maker and make sure that they've got a need that we can actually help them with. Right. If someone comes to me and says, well, you know, so we are, you're a nonprofit, you're in the mental health space. You're doing really great work. It turns out that you've got a great website. It's converting really well. You just need someone to run YouTube ads for you and ramp up the traffic that you're getting to your website. I'm probably not the droid you're looking for because I don't run PPC campaigns for clients. So now we've had that quick 10 minute phone call. I go, great. I can probably refer you onto someone that can help you, but I, I, I can't help you if they make it through the triage call.
Speaker 0 00:21:05 And I think there's a genuine fit here that we can help them. We put them through to a deeper what we call a strategy call or a growth plan, right? And in between those two calls, we send them some homework and the homework is designed to do two things. To allow them to self assess how much work they need to do, and also to position us as the trusted authority, right? That's the key. And we've, by the way, we've got a hundred percent strike rate of people turning up to a growth plan or a strategy call having done their homework. So everyone who turns up to a, a strategy call with us, they've done their homework and they say, this is one of the most useful exercises I've done in recent history. This has been really eye-opening and I've got a lot of work to do, and we go, great.
Speaker 0 00:21:53 We can help you with that. Excuse me. Then we have the strategy call. And usually on the strategy call, they'll close into one of our programs or we'll schedule a follow up call with them a couple of days later, just to talk about logistics and get them onboarded, or we'll decide that we're not a good fit. And we'll part ways as friends, right? Uh, if they don't make a decision on that call, we put 'em into a simple anti follow up sequence, and then they either win. They're not a good fit, or it's not now. And we put 'em into follow up. So that's it at a high level, very high level. Let me explain where paid discovery fits in paid discovery. You can sell paid discovery. I would suggest by the way, if this is a new concept for you, that you sell paid discovery on the second call on the strategy call.
Speaker 0 00:22:40 As I said, we do have Mavericks that are selling paid discovery strata for triage call, largely because they're impatient and they've just dialed it in. They've just got their value proposition, right? The leads that are coming in are good quality leads. They're from referrals. They don't need to have a second call. So you don't want the, you don't want the second call to get in the way of closing someone into paid discovery. If someone is giving you all the right buying signals on that first triage call, you could just sell them paid discovery on that first call. But if you've never done this before, I would suggest that you do the triage call. You get 'em into a second call, and then you sell the paid discovery off that second call, if paid discovery on. Let me explain when I think you should sell paid discovery, you should sell in, in what instance you should sell paid discovery.
Speaker 0 00:23:26 I think you should sell paid discovery. There's a couple of clues. I look for that. Tell me, ah, I think you are right for a digital roadmap session. One is I've never done this before. They want me to build some really complex membership website and plug it into some really weird eCommerce thing and have a whole bunch of automations go off and talk to other third party things. And there are too many variables for me to actually figure out how much this is gonna cost. Right? So at that point, I would wanna do some paid discovery because I wanna dive deeper and really do a technical audit and a technical analysis of what is required, the other instance. So, so if I'm not really sure how, what, how much work is involved and therefore how to quote it or how to, how to, um, price it.
Speaker 0 00:24:13 Then I wanna do a pay discovery. The other instance, which is more common is if they don't know what they're doing, which is really common, right? So they wanna build a membership website and they've never had one before they wanna do e-commerce and they've never done e-commerce before. In that case, I wanna do pay discovery because I want them to understand all the moving parts that are involved. And I wanna make sure we answer all of the questions before we pick up the crayons and the code editors and start building stuff. I wanna make sure that we've got very, very clear plan of attack before we start building anything, right. It's literally like having a drawing from a draftsman before we get on site and start laying the foundations and pour, pouring the concrete. So that they're the situations where I think you should sell pay discovery.
Speaker 0 00:25:01 And I think you should sell it off that second call and paid discovery is typically, you know, I like to kind of think about it somewhere between around 10 to 20% of the overarching price of the project. So if we think this is gonna be a $20,000 website, we might pitch it at 1500 to two and a half K for paid discovery. That kind of makes sense. You've gotta know your numbers and you've gotta understand what it costs you to deliver a paid discovery session. And you've gotta make sure it's profitable. Okay. Any questions so far, Pete, have I,
Speaker 3 00:25:34 No. Nope. Um, I know Adam sells it after the triage call, but his situation's a little bit different the way he, the way he positions it. But I, I agree that it should be cuz you wanna know the B a N T before you, before you sell anything. Right. The whole purpose of selling the strategy call is to parlay that into a bigger project. So if they're not right for the bigger project, then don't bother doing the discovery session.
Speaker 0 00:26:02 Yeah, correct. That's right. And uh, just to clarify, the B a N T uh, framework is a great qualification framework. It's budget, authority need and timeline, right? So you just authority means, are they the decision maker? Do they have a realistic budget? Do they have a need you can actually help them with, and is their timeline now or, you know, next year. Um, so that's the purpose of the triage call? Really? A couple of questions here, Adam Noack, are you saying no to gambling because of personal reasons, all legalities of the sector, I'm saying no to gambling because, uh, I, not for personal reasons, I have no personal history with gambling or any family history with gambling. I've seen gambling destroy lives in Victoria. We are the problem gambling capital of the world per head of population where I live. That's no exaggeration. I'm not making that up.
Speaker 0 00:26:52 I used to gig, I used to play live music in a casino here in Melbourne, uh, for, I don't know, 18 months, two years I was there probably two or three times a month. And I would just watch these people. They were there every time I was there, they were there pouring money into these poker machines. And gambling has just destroyed families here in Victoria. And the poker machines are designed to only ever pay out 15%, sorry, uh, 85% of what they take. So you put a hundred dollars into a, into a poker machine on average, you're only ever gonna get $85 back. The math just doesn't make sense, right. But there's all this psychology built into a poker machine that give you quick wins and keep you hooked in. So I just don't think that that kind of gambling is good for society. So I don't wanna be a part of it. I would rather work with people who are doing good things in the world, and I don't think gambling institutes are doing good things in the world. Um, so I hope that answers that
Speaker 3 00:27:57 Question. I, I agree. I don't do anything, anything that I would consider advice, we don't anything that we would consider advice except porn. We do a lot of porn
Speaker 0 00:28:06 <laugh> yeah. Porn, of course everyone does porn. I mean, there's lots of money in porn and you know, um, uh, there's a lots to, lots of, lots of learn from the porn industry in terms of user experience. Yes. Um, now, uh, the <laugh> um, yes, there we go. World done Stewart. George. Yes. Another fellow MUO and ex Adelaide. Yep. Gambling's always been a hard, no for us too. That's right. And also poker machines put most of us MUO out of business, uh, back in the day. So, um, so where do you stop the call and start the paid session? That's a great question, James. Well, I, I don't do discovery on the, on the strategy call
Speaker 3 00:28:43 On the sales call. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:28:44 No we, so the you've got the sales script you'll know this, the purpose of the strategy call is just to ask them lots of questions so that they can identify that they need help. Let me walk you through some of the things we do. In fact, let me ask you this. Would you like to see the three assets that I've built that we've built here? I can't take all the credit for this because cat, well, one brainstorming this with the coaches has been incredibly helpful, but then also KA Townsend from the good alliance.org, big shout out to cat Townsend from the good Alliance who is our IP, our information designer and takes our intellectual property in turns into beautiful graphic assets and digital assets. She has built three assets that we use as part of a digital roadmap session. Would you like to see them? Let me know in the comments. Wow. Rochelle Perry. One of my long term clients now writes gay porn. Wow. Look at that. Fantastic. That's a, uh, a growth industry. Someone says, I wonder if that's because of COVID. I wonder if it's a growth industry because of COVID. Um, okay, so let me just come over to,
Speaker 3 00:29:54 I think James was doing a little play on words.
Speaker 0 00:29:58 Alright. Yes. People wanna see the assets. Here we go. Wow. It descended pretty quickly then didn't it. Um, let's have a look at the, this one here. Let's have a look at this one here. Do do do, okay. There are three assets that we use when running a digital roadmap session. Now let me just, let me just preframe this before I show you, before I share my screen, the purpose of a digital roadmap session is to get clear about what it is. We are building with the client, why we are building it and what success looks like, right? So why are we doing this? What are we doing? And what does success look like? That's the purpose of a digital roadmap session. I always pre I always pitch this by saying, look at the end of the digital roadmap session, you are going to have a digital roadmap workbook filled in with all of your answers.
Speaker 0 00:30:58 It's basically a strategy document. You can then take. If we decide that we don't wanna work together, which is probably gonna happen, I'm probably gonna decide I don't wanna work with you because I don't like doing implementation very much. Cause it's a pain in the ass. Then you can take this strategy book and go give it to someone else. Another agency I can refer you on and say, here, we've done all the hard work. The agency now knows exactly what they need to build, right? This is the hard work in any project is figuring out the why, what, who, where how, right. So that's what we do in the, in the roadmap session. There are three assets that I like to use, and this is doesn't matter if you're doing it on zoom. I used to do this in person. Uh, now of course, these days, we're doing a lot of this on zoom and it's great.
Speaker 0 00:31:42 If you can get confident doing this on zoom, because then you open yourself up to a global audience, right? And you can have clients anywhere around the world. So the first thing, the first asset that we have is our slide deck. And the slide deck is simply, it just gives some, it just gives people somewhere to rest their eyes while we are talking and thinking. And it also shows them some examples of what we are looking for. Right. So they can go, what are we supposed to be doing here with the customer persona? And they look at the slide and go, oh yeah, right. That's right. Cool. Got it. Okay. So
Speaker 3 00:32:19 Also gives them a sense that you've done this before,
Speaker 0 00:32:22 Correct? That's right.
Speaker 3 00:32:23 This isn't your first rodeo.
Speaker 0 00:32:26 That's right. Um, I'm just gonna walk you through. I'm not gonna show you all of these, but what I do wanna show you is that these are white labeled assets, right? So you just drop your business name here. Uh, you know, you can stick your own logo on it, whatever. And then we've just got a, you know, some simple, uh, slides here, a welcome slide. You know about me. You go through the agenda, uh, you know, let's get started. Then these, these slides here, point to blank worksheets, which I'll show you in a second. These slides here, talk to blank worksheets. So you just have this up on the screen and you as a facilitator, talk about this concept and teach, and then they have their own workbook where they start to fill it in. Right. And we talk about again, so, Hey, we're gonna talk about the vision.
Speaker 0 00:33:12 These are the questions that we need to answer. When you give them the exercise to go work in groups or start work in their workbook. You leave these slides up because they're like, what are we supposed to be doing again? Why does your business exist? And they can look at the screen and go, why does this business exist? What greater purpose are we trying to make in the world? Right. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh, so the, the slide deck is a combination of these kind of templated slides that show them what they should be doing in their workbook and then prompts and questions that they should be thinking about to fill in the workbook. Right? And here we go is a, there's a worksheet of a customer persona, blah, blah, blah. Right? So again, I'm not gonna go through every single one of these, uh, but that's the slide deck.
Speaker 0 00:33:51 That's what the slide deck looks like. It's pretty straightforward. And then there's a thanks screen at the end. Okay. Now, in addition to that, we have a facilitator workbook and the facilitator workbook again, is the branding is all consistent. It's all white layered. You stick your own stuff on it. The facilitator workbook, can you guys see the facilitator work? Yes, you can. The facilitator workbook is your workbook. This is the workbook that you, as the facilitator have. I usually have this on my iPad. And once people are in the room, when people come in the room, this is the, you know, the first slide is up on the screen and I have this on my iPad and everyone sits down and they do their little chit chat and they talk about who won the sport on the weekend and blah, blah, blah. And then you flick the welcome slide up.
Speaker 0 00:34:38 And here's your script. Hey, welcome everyone. Thanks for, uh, for being here. You explain any housekeeping. Then you go around the room and ask everyone to state their name, position in the company and what they hope to get outta the workshop. Right? So here's your script. It basically tells you what to say. It's paint by numbers, right? The, these slide, these pages in your workbook match the slides. Got it. Um, then we talk about the concepts. We go through the agenda. This is the business overview. So the slide is that yellow slide I showed you before, uh, you then talk them through this. You teach, right? And then they fill it in. Okay. Here's an example. So you can actually walk them through an example. You go. So an example of a vision might be, we imagine a world where everyone has the awareness and skills to support others with mental health challenges.
Speaker 0 00:35:27 That's, that's an example of a vision. The mission is to get mindfulness taught every primary school in Australia. That's the mission that that's an example of a mission. Our job today, ladies gentlemen is to write and articulate the mission for our, this is a fictitious company called mindscape by the way. Um, so these are examples that you use to teach and then the people in the work, your client in the workshop, they actually fill in their own workbook, which I'll show you in a second. So these slides are all here in your facilitator. These are all pages in your facilitator workbook. Okay. Got it. Excellent. Now the participant workbook is very, very similar to the facilitator workbook, right? It's just blank. All these worksheets here are blank. And during the workshop, they get to fill them in. Now I'm a bit, this work, this whole digital roadmap for me is kind of built around my sweet spot, which is user experience, customer experience.
Speaker 0 00:36:22 Right? Uh, I'm trying to understand the questions that I'm trying to answer in a digital roadmap session are if I go to my facilitator workbook, the questions I'm trying to answer, which is the agenda are the, the overview of the business. Like, who are you guys? What do you do? Who do you do it for? Why are you here? The project brief? Like, what are we actually trying to build? Is it a new website, a membership website we're adding e-commerce to our existing website. What are we trying to actually do? And then the project resources, uh, our customer persona, our customer journey map, our site map and our user flow. That's, that's typically for a website, right? So they're the questions that I'm trying to answer. And the participant workbook has all these beautiful worksheets that they can fill in to workshop and brainstorm these answers.
Speaker 0 00:37:10 And so by the end of the workshop, they are super clear about exactly what they're trying to do, who they're doing it for, what the customer journey looks like. The other things that they need to consider. We've got a site map mapped out. We've got some user flows, mapped out for new users and returning visitors. And we have a next steps page of who said, they're gonna do what by when right now, I know I just gave this to you from the fire hose. And it was very quick, but the point is once this is way more valuable than just selling paid strategy, because there are deliverables. They have this participant workbook that they have, they get at the end of it, right? My suggestion to my clients is someone client side fills this in. You can all fill it in, but at the end of it, we need to collate all of your, uh, thoughts and ideas into one master workbook.
Speaker 0 00:38:03 And there's some really cool things you can do. Like you can use post-it notes. If you're doing this physically in a room, we've done this before at Navon, you use post-it notes in the room and you get people to vote and you get people to move stuff around on post-it notes. And it becomes really interactive. You take a bunch of photos and then someone is responsible for all of that stuff into one master workbook at the end. And that's what the client ends up with is basically their digital strategy in a workbook with their goals, mapped out, uh, the purpose of what they're doing, who they're doing it for and what their next action steps are. And the next action steps will be too much for them to do because there's a skills gap, or they don't have the resources all the time to do it. So it's logical for them then to hire you to do it with them or for them, which is how you then transition into going from paid discovery into a larger project.
Speaker 3 00:38:51 Traditionally, I always did it as part of the project, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> but the problem with that was sometimes you discovered that the project needs to be more than you originally thought the project was going to be that's right. To go with your tail between the legs and say, um, we're gonna need more money to really execute this whole plan. Right. Right. That's a yourself, small way to do
Speaker 0 00:39:13 This. It's awkward. Isn't it? It's like, yeah. It's like getting into an Uber, putting your address. This has happened to me recently, putting the address in the Uber, getting in with your mate and then going to the Uber driver. Oh, by the way, dude, I've just gotta drop him off on the way. Right. The Uber driver pulled over and said, open your app and add his address as a destination in the app. And it will recalculate the total,
Speaker 3 00:39:37 Right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 0 00:39:39 He pulled over and I'm like, dude, just keep driving. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. Pull over. Add that his address as a destination, it will recalculate. Then we can start again because how many times you get halfway through a project with a client, you go, oh shit. They're expecting, you know, a membership area where people can log in and see their past orders. And I haven't scoped that out and that's gonna cost more. And then it's a very awkward conversation, right?
Speaker 3 00:40:00 Is this part of a process on a course, you're offering something like a sales course, perhaps. So this is something we give our Mavericks members, um, as part of their membership, they can have that. So if you're in Mavericks, raise your hand in slack and we'll get this to you. Um, maybe we can just dump it into the general channel so everybody can see it at once. Um, but you know, we're always, we're always looking for things to create courses around or, or yeah. You know, so if you're, you know, if you're interested in something like that, Adam, if there's enough interest in something like that, we would certainly not leave you hanging. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:40:35 Totally. If this is, if you guys are listening to this or for those of you who have seen it in the group, by the way, again, if you're listening to this as a podcast, please come and join the digital Mavericks Facebook group. So you can see these beautiful assets that we've been talking about. Uh, and you can, you can, you know, it's amazing modern technology. You're probably listening to this podcast on your phone. You can join the Facebook group on your phone. It's amazing. Amazing. You know, the other thing you can do is you can call your mom from the same device and listen to this podcast and join the Facebook group all on the same walk. Right? Right. It's incredible, amazing modern technology. Um, so if you are in, if you would like this as a formal training and a, a, uh, process driven course with all the assets, let us know, and we will put something together for you. Facebook user says, my God, I love it. I have 20 sheets of butcher paper. I now have to collate after our full day of paid discovery on Tuesday. There we go. Uh, Sheila, herd's loving by the way. Congratulations Sheila herd for joining Maverick's club,
Speaker 0 00:41:45 Sheila herd, you are a rockstar. It's been about a, an 18 month to two year on ramp for, uh, Sheila. Who's been through a bunch of our programs to then eventually pull the trigger and join Maverick's club, which is amazing. It's so awesome. I just cannot wait to start working with you and Mike I'm super excited. Peter Wright says, love this need to implement this immediately keen to get my hands on those assets. Well, Peter, we should have a conversation. You are in sales accelerator. We should probably have a conversation. My friend, um, yes. Offering this as a precursor to a full project. James Mero. I'll tell you other thing that happens. And I didn't realize this. When you start offering this as a precursor to a full project, you generally can charge more for the full project. So you might slice out paid discovery at two and a half K and then the 12 K project becomes an $18,000 project because a, you actually know what's involved and B you are positioning and your authority is through the roof. Exactly. Um, <laugh> I went to another comment here from anonymous Facebook user. I went to a four hour long discovery meeting yesterday and forgot to take notes. <laugh> oh my gosh. I'm I feel your pain. Um, I really am sorry that you're having that experience. Your client should be taking the notes by the way. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:43:12 If you show up and do a discovery process with a professional looking slide, deck and PDFs that you can fill out or write printed out, that you can write in a workbook, the, the old what's, the old adage, the way you do something is the way you do everything. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, that's at least that's the, that's the implication. So now they know what level you work at. Cause I promise you they've never had this done before. Like they's had websites before, but they didn't have this process. So
Speaker 0 00:43:46 That's right, because it
Speaker 3 00:43:47 Elevates you big time.
Speaker 0 00:43:48 That's a really interesting point. I just wanna park you for a second. If they had done this in the past, they wouldn't be talking to you right now because they wouldn't have a problem with their website or the strategy. It would be working, but they it's not working because they haven't done this before and it's not working because they haven't done this before. And that's why they're talking to you. Right? Um, Eloy, uh, hunter BR off was the one who went to a four hour long discovery meeting yesterday. I forgot to take notes. Eloy, come on, my friend, start taking notes. Use Notability on the iPad. Yes. So Stuart, you know, what I like to do is I actually have these participant workbooks as PDFs on my iPad with Notability my friend and I have my apple pencil and I can just walk around the room with the workbook open and I can show them how to fill it in on the iPad. And they think you're a genius. They're like, oh my God, you invented the internet. Right. Um,
Speaker 3 00:44:43 Adam, Adam let's have, uh, Emily, if you're listening, can you have Doza reach out to Adam and, and talk to him about what we have to offer as far as different programs.
Speaker 0 00:44:54 Um, Rory Rory says, uh, if they had, uh, no Rory says, uh, that's right. If they'd done this in the past, they wouldn't have this problem. Exactly. And also, um, <laugh> I get it. I get it. So Rory was Rory was trying to make notes in click up, but he was leaving notes in the, in the chat here. So he's basically parroting what you've been saying, Pete, but instead of leaving those notes,
Speaker 3 00:45:19 Did I say that or did
Speaker 0 00:45:21 He's um, that's pretty
Speaker 3 00:45:23 Funny.
Speaker 0 00:45:24 If my client walked out with a thing they would pay double for sure. Yes. Rory Flyn correct. They would pay double that's. It's hilarious. This is, uh, turning into a variety show. Um, genius. Excellent. There we go. So what questions do you guys have? What questions do you guys have about implementing this? Uh, I, so yes, anonymous Facebook user, who is that bloody anonymous Facebook user is that, is that Rory Flin? Whoever it is, no
Speaker 3 00:45:52 Rory's showing up.
Speaker 0 00:45:53 So if you wanna, if you want a power move for this, right, take your iPhone or a, if it's gonna be a long discovery session, then just grab one of those little zoom recorders, right? Stick it in the middle of the table, record the entire session, have it transcribed, right? Might cost you a couple of hundred bucks to have a two or three hour workshop transcribed and then have someone go through it and pull out all the nuggets to make sure you didn't miss anything. Write up a one page executive summary of the transcript, send that back to the client a few days after the workshop, they'll think you're a magician. And on the day you don't have to take notes. You just get to perform lean into the client, listen to them, facilitate the conversation, uh, record it all. Have it transcribed, have someone, you know, have a, a team member, write up a one page summary of the transcription to pull out all the gold nuggets. And that's a power move. It's a bit of work involved, but it's, uh, you know, it's, that's the kind of work that no one else does. Right. There you go. Sheila, if you have an Android, Google recorder transcribes, while recording, there you go. Fantastic. Uh, good, good, good. All right. What questions do you have about implementation of this or the sales process? What questions do you have? This has been good. This has been fun.
Speaker 3 00:47:19 Yeah. That's the best way to base your price for paid discovery. I mean, you said earlier that you like to think of it as about 10% of what the project's gonna, but of course we don't really know what the project's gonna be yet. So
Speaker 0 00:47:32 <laugh> yeah. I mean, it's, I have a gut, I have a gut feel, right? Like, like I kind of know that a project is gonna be in a range of like maybe, you know, 10 to 20. Right. So I'm kind of wanting to pitch 1500 for a paid discovery. Yeah. Um, and based on that, uh, the, the, the other thing that you need to know is what does it cost you to deliver a paid discovery session now to completely blow your mind and give you massive FOMO? We have an entire template project template set up in click up for running these paid discovery sessions with all of the things that you need to do before the paid discovery session on the day of the paid discovery session, the day after the paid discovery session, um, the week after the paid discovery session, how to transition the paid discovery into a full project.
Speaker 0 00:48:25 So that's all in a checklist in click up, which then includes these assets that we've shown you today. Um, so you need to know how much it costs you to deliver paid discovery, right? And it needs to be profitable. So, and you need to factor in your time or the person who's running the paid discovery. So, you know, the, the kind of rule of thumb to start is about 10 to 15% of what you think the project is gonna be charged that in paid discovery. And Chris ask a very good question. Can you offer the price of the discovery? Come off the project. If they go ahead, you can, if you wanna sweeten the pot a little bit, you can say, Hey, look, if we make this investment of $1,500 in this, uh, digital roadmap session, if you then go ahead with the project, I'll give you a credit of 1500 against the project, or I'll give you a credit of half.
Speaker 0 00:49:10 So I'll credit seven 50 against the project, right. That might be enough to sweeten the pot as well. Uh, question here from Rory, any advantage to pitching a summary of what you do to entice them to a high value session, like a sneak peak of your session? Uh, I wouldn't, no Rory says or keep it mysterious. I would keep it mysterious, dude. Yep. I would keep it mysterious. Yeah. You, you know, the reason you join the platinum club is to get into the platinum room to get behind the platinum door, into the platinum room. Right? If you, if you open the platinum door and go in, you might go, oh, you know what? I actually don't wanna be a member here. There's actually not that exciting. So I would keep it mysterious. That would be my advice there.
Speaker 0 00:49:55 Uh, and James says the zoom H four N is a great option to record. Yes, it is. I've got one of them, myself. It's a very good option. Any other questions about selling this, implementing it, by the way, just a future, uh, pace here. We have Mavericks who are selling these and their team members are running them. And then the team members are upselling into the larger project. Right? So that's where you can end up, you can codify this thing. I mean, we've done a lot of the heavy lifting for you. You can codify product so that your team members can run it. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:50:35 Uh, Adam's got a good question following up on what you've suggested with the executive summary delivered to a client. Is there anything else you'd ever send them? I feel like clients love things. They can hold in their hands. And last time I've done a website audit. I created a 30 page PowerPoint. Like the one you showed, I printed it out and had it bound on a ring binder and delivered it. Yeah, sure, totally. You can do that. You can take the, uh, you can take their workbook, their master workbook and put that into a, into a binder. Uh, you could, um, you know, there's a bunch of things you could do. I, what you wanna make sure that you do is you have a follow up call after the digital road mapping session. The digital roadmap workshop have a follow up call booked in for a week after to follow up, answer any questions.
Speaker 0 00:51:20 And then basically ask them. So what do you wanna do? This is a great plan. We came up with, what do you wanna do? Do you wanna just sit on it or do you wanna action it, you know, we wanna action it. Great. Would you like my help? Yes. Brilliant. Uh, let's go. It's gonna cost this much and this is how we get started, right? What's a good length. It says Rory, is there a concentration drop off? Uh, I've run full day workshops like this before and they're hard work. I would, I wouldn't do any more than four hours now. Four hours. Yep. And I would have one break at least one break in the middle of those four hours. So about an hour and about 90 minutes and then have like a 15 minute break, then do another 90 minutes and then have another 15 minute break. And then you've got 15 minutes of fluff at the start for your intro. You've got 15 minutes of fluff at the end for questions. There's your four hours. That's what I, that's what I would do. Um, alright, this is good. I feel like there's some, I feel like this has been, this has been valuable. What's been most valuable for you guys out of, uh, this episode of the agency hour. What has been most valuable for you guys? Let us know in the comments and while you are doing that, for those of you who are listening to this podcast, I have a favor to ask.
Speaker 0 00:52:33 Can you please go to where do, where do they leave reviews these days? Max? Is it, is it, is it apple? I mean, you can't leave reviews on Spotify, right? Can you just go to wherever you listen to this podcast and give us a rating or a review or find out where you can do that for us. And also, uh, if you're on the phone, just grab whatever you're listening to. Now, if it's Spotify or apple podcast or whatever, it is, just grab the share link, right? And copy the link to this episode and share it with anyone. You know, who is in the web design, digital marketing space that you think might benefit from this? You know, that is how we, uh, that is how we get in front of a larger audience. And that is how we help more people. And so we're asking you to help us grow our listenership here, because we love doing this and we wanna keep doing it and we will keep doing it. We just wanna help more people and impact more people. Uh,
Speaker 3 00:53:23 You do that. Adam, Adam has another question. So at what stage would you send a proposal? Because it almost feels like after you've done one of these, you don't really need a proposal. They are hopefully already sold and you just need to send an invoice. You're right. See what you send is a statement of work. Yes,
Speaker 0 00:53:38 That's right. You're starting to get it Adam.
Speaker 0 00:53:41 That's right. So this, this replaces the proposal dude. And, and what we do is we send a, um, on the follow up call after this session, we would send them a statement of work. So we do a follow up call after the digital roadmap session, ask them the, any clarifying questions. Hey, this is all a great plan. And what aha moments did you guys have? Where are you at? What do you wanna do? Do you want my help? Great. I'm gonna send you a statement of work and, uh, we'll get started. And then there's a whole other conversation about how your product ties the deliverables of this. And it also depends on what it is you're delivering. Um, and that's another conversation for another time. Great. So yeah, this really does replace the proposal. We send them a statement of work after this, uh, which is really just a way of formalizing what we've already agreed on during the digital roadmap session.
Speaker 0 00:54:26 I'm gonna give you four words too. That is, are going to help you close a client from a digital roadmap session into a larger project at a higher price point. If you get on a follow up call and basically recap what you've talked about during the digital roadmap session and say, does this all sound like a good plan? And they're like, yep. Say, what do you wanna do? And they, and they're backing out and they're going well. We're not sure yet. We've gotta think about it. And there's we we've gotta talk to some other agencies and blah, blah, blah. I learned this from here we go. Max, Jeff Gott. Thank you very much. I learned this from reading gap selling by Keenan. If you've spent four hours with a client in a digital roadmap workshop and you know their business intimately, the four words are, I'm confused.
Speaker 0 00:55:12 You said, right? I'm confused. You said that you guys wanted to launch this website to serve this particular client and help 'em out in this way and generate this revenue. It's all here in the document. What, what, what have I missed? Help me understand this. What have I missed? And then you just shut up and let them explain it. I'm confused. You said you, you I'm confused. You said you wanted to buy an electric car. You've come down to the dealership. You've taken it for a test drive. You've said, it's the best car you've ever driven. I'm confused what what's go? What, what, what do you wanna do? And then you watch them squirm and try and explain their way out of it. Right? It's not manipulative. It's just the facts. You said that you wanted to do this. I'm con I'm confused. You said you wanted to do this. Well, did I miss a meeting? Did you guys have a meeting without me while I wasn't there? What what's going on? I'm confused. Help me understand. Right? Uh, and if you really want to power this up, read gap selling by Keenan. It's amazing. It's incredible book. All right. This has been fun. I fear that I fear that Goldie is, is, uh, bashing the shit outta the rest of
Speaker 3 00:56:20 Her family. I could hear her at one point. I could hear the terrorist.
Speaker 0 00:56:23 She's beating the shit outta the rest of my family out there. So I might need to go and, uh, dive in and help out. Um, how about this has been fun. Pete
Speaker 3 00:56:31 Been good. Awesome. Yeah. This will be my last one for, at least for about a month though.
Speaker 0 00:56:36 You will. That's right. The time zones have changed. I month
Speaker 3 00:56:38 Changed. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:56:39 And, uh, and you know, Pete's old now, so he tends to fall asleep at about seven o'clock at night. So, uh, we're gonna let him off the hook. So having said that we are gonna start bringing on some extra guests into the agency, and we're also gonna start bringing in the other coaches. I have. It's really interesting cuz you, when we had this conversation on Tuesday, about the time zone change, I've had four emails since Tuesday of people wanting to be your guest on the podcast,
Speaker 0 00:57:03 Just completely randomly. So we are gonna bring on some guests, uh, on the podcast. Let me know, let us know who you would like to see on the agency or who you would like to hear. If there's a particular guest that you would like us to bring on, let us know who they are and we will do our best to reach out to them and get them. Uh, and uh, we will start bringing on some, some guests and the other coaches and uh, keep this conversation going because, uh, this is the most fun I have during the week. That's for sure. And, uh, Pete again, thanks for being a part of it. Thanks for being, uh, the wing man here, brother. Appreciate you. My pleasure. And um, <laugh> James Moro says hor mosey. I'll do my best to get hor mosey on the show. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:57:42 Good luck. That'll be fun. Yeah. Yeah. All right, gang. This is 57 minutes. We are outta here. We will see you. I'll see you again next week. No, actually I won't. I'm taking a couple of weeks off. What am I talking about? We're actually having a couple of weeks off, cause I'm going on holidays. So we'll be back in a few weeks with, or without Pete. We'll be back here in a few weeks on the agency hour until then, uh, enjoy. And if you wanna have a chat with us about working with us, just leave a comment here or reach out to our team at support agency, mavericks.com and we'll have a conversation about the products and the programs that we have that can help you. All right. Take care
Speaker 3 00:58:13 Guys. Take care.
Speaker 1 00:58:15 Thanks for listening to the agency hour podcast, subscribe at apple podcasts, Spotify pocket, audible, and wherever you like to listen, you can catch all of the agency hour episodes on our YouTube channel at youtube.com/agency Mavericks. Or you can get involved, check out our free digital Mavericks Facebook group, where we broadcast these episodes live for our community every week, along with a ton of free training. We'll see you.
